Rachel and Joey

I love your entire post, SmellyCat.

I *totally* hadn't registered that pause when Joey said, "I love living with you." Great catch there! That whole arc is so heartbreaking. The angst was so good. I wouldn't have thought Matt could pull off Joey's vulnerability and fear that well, but he definitely knocked it out of the park.

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I hate how their relationship ended and there was no mention of it afterwards.

There was that one moment Rachel said, "he was wonderful! He was thoughtful, he was mature. And for the one week that we went out... he didn't sleep with anybody else," so at least we have that. I agree that their interaction was cut down a lot after they broke up, which does sucks. But there are little moments of them sitting together in the shop in opening scenes (there's also the scene of them talking about Amy, and the whole thing with Phoebe's painting), and I looove that balcony scene. It says so much without them even saying anything. I like how open ended it is and that Ross said, "What's taking them so long?" because we can decide for ourselves what Rachel was saying, and according to Ross, they were talking for a while. The fact that Joey was about to jump implied, to me, that he definitely was still in love with Rachel. He'd just accepted that they couldn't be together when they had problems getting physical (which I honestly think made no sense), and that proved how selfless and mature he really was.

OMG are you me? I had a small interest in watching Joey, but never got around to it. Then after becoming more of a R/J fan, I was like "Nah, don't really want to see Joey fall in love and be with someone else." It had taken him more than 30 years to fall in love for the first time, and I can't buy that he suddenly fell for two other women after moving to L.A. My personal canon is that Rachel was, and always would be, the only woman he ever loved. And so much word to him not having the rest of the group! IMO a spinoff with any of the characters wouldn't have worked half as well as Friends did. I've seen a few clips of Joey here and there on Youtube, and a couple jokes are funny, but yeah, it really wasn't the same.

I can understand that you don't like R/J, anninat. I totally get that OTP-ish feeling (like I just- said about Joey in his spin-off) - I just have that with Rachel and Joey, heh. At least we can agree that the buildup for them was cute!

I have to say it, I didn't think there was Such a big fan base of the Joey/Rach relationship :)

Huh. I've come across the opposite in just getting into the Friends fandom the past month or so. I have found there to be more R/J fans than R/R fans. *shrugs* It's funny because I assumed that I was the only one who liked R/J together.

Personally, I have always liked how Joey had no expectations over Rachel and how she *should* be towards him. He allowed her to be herself and never legislated how she should feel towards him. Even when she didn't like Ross and he (ross) was feeling left out, Joey made a big sacrifice and did what he thought was better for her.

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I *totally* hadn't registered that pause when Joey said, "I love living with you." Great catch there! That whole arc is so heartbreaking. The angst was so good. I wouldn't have thought Matt could pull off Joey's vulnerability and fear that well, but he definitely knocked it out of the park.

He did it as well when speaking to Chandler, just barely catching himself before saying, "I love her." Then he tells it to the dog (Phoebe's friend's dog) in the episode after and he just looks so sad it makes me want to cry. :(

In a strange way, that J/R arc proved Joey to be the most mature of the group. He was willing to give up happiness for his friends' family. I didn't pay much attention to it then, but he spoke about it in season 3 as well, where he told Chandler to let Janice go if there was ever a chance she and her (then) ex-husband to be a real family. In TOW the Stain, he was completely willing to give up his sex life if it meant Rachel could stay with him. Nobody seems to realise that Joey did have a lot of character development. He didn't end up with a lover or spouse, but he's the most selfless person in that group and he has a heart of gold.

If I had to pick one line to summarise J/R, it'd be in TOW Monica Sings. Ross and Rachel had a fight and she asked Joey to move back in. Even though it's a really emotional moment and they're hugging, she still says, "Your eyebrows look weird." It's perfect for them. It's romance but it's a simple relationship. Rachel can be herself around him, she can be strong and childish simultaneously. With Ross, she had to push her career ideals down because he was getting jealous of a job she'd wanted all her life. But with Joey, she kept pushing forward and he encouraged her to be her own woman. To quote again, "Ross showed [her] the stars. Joey makes [her] touch them."

Oooh, I should be so lucky to be you. You're awesome. Without wanting to, whenever I read the summary for Joey and read that "eventually, he grows up and begins a committed relationship with Alex", I can't help but think "fuck that!". First of all, what do they mean by "grows up"? He's mature, responsible (the whole thing with Emma is a prime example) and entirely capable of being in a committed relationship.

Oh, and just call me Amy.

Hee, I think a lot of people assumed they were the only R/J fans until they find out there's more. Like I thought there'd only be R/R, M/C, C/J, and P/J fans here, but was pleasantly surprised to see that a couple loved R/J.

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Personally, I have always liked how Joey had no expectations over Rachel and how she *should* be towards him. He allowed her to be herself and never legislated how she should feel towards him. Even when she didn't like Ross and he (ross) was feeling left out, Joey made a big sacrifice and did what he thought was better for her.

Oh, definitely. I 100% agree with all of this. Even as far back as the S2 premiere, Joey had such a calming effect on Rachel while she was worrying about Ross. Joey always gave Rachel advice and did give her a push toward her dreams, but his effects on her always came off as positive to me.

Yes, the scene with Mozzarella was so sad, but so very Joey. And I love the scene of Chandler checking in on Joey and him giving that 'lone wolf' speech, but falling apart at the end.

ITA about Joey being shown as very mature when he fell for Rachel. While watching him during TOW Ross is Fine (back when I was a R/R fan), it really stuck out to me how grown up Joey seemed, and after looking back on S8 eps and the S9 finale, it really was a gradually building thing.

Scenes like the one you pointed out in TOW Monica Sings are the reason why I ended up loving Rachel's interaction with Joey. That is a perfect example of how well they fit together, and your description of them is spot on. What bothered me about R/R is that, even at the end of the series, Rachel gave up such a great job for Ross, and Ross still hadn't changed by then (he did a little, then went back on it and asked Rachel to stay with him.) Nothing had changed between them, and Ross acted the same as he did in most of Season 3. Joey, on the other hand, kept growing and emotionally maturing enough to be a good romantic candidate for Rachel, but after they broke up, he was suddenly reduced to just being a dumb ladies man because the writers figured they could wait until the spin off to restart his character development. I don't think there ever should've been a spin-off, but that's just me.

I also agree with your last paragraph (what a surprise, right?) I get that the writers knew R/J was never going to get the popular vote, so they gave most of the audience what they wanted (R/R together and Joey happy with another woman.) I just won't ever agree with either of those endings.

Okay, I will call you Amy then! And you are awesome! :D

anninat wrote:

I have to say it, I didn't think there was Such a big fan base of the Joey/Rach relationship :)

Me neither! I love how our little 'club' is growing I was pleasantly surprised to come back and see lots of new J/R shippers :)

myprecious wrote:

Hee, I think a lot of people assumed they were the only R/J fans until they find out there's more. Like I thought there'd only be R/R, M/C, C/J, and P/J fans here, but was pleasantly surprised to see that a couple loved R/J.

I definitely thought I was the only one! And then SmellyCat came along and then the rest of you guys, ahh how I love this place

I knew I wasn't the only R/J fan, but I'm still pleased that I'm not the only one on this forum. :)

"That was Rachel. She's the one that used to live here. Might as well be honest... we love her. But we can't have her. I really miss her." Broke my heart.

I love that look at the end of TOW Ross Is Fine, where he says that he's crazy about her. And when he's saying that she might be crazy about him too, he's got this quiet suppressed happy look. It's sweet how in love he is but he has to hide it for Ross' sake. It's not fair but he cares too much about his friends.

The only endings I agree with are the ones in fanfiction. They're so plausible but of course, Lobsters wins because it came first. People just won't realise that it was Rachel giving everything up for Ross. He only ever made sacrifices for her when she was pregnant, and therefore he was obligated to give up dating because she had to. And even then, Joey took her out and gave her the best date of her life.

I love how we all agree on everything. :)

You are so not alone, MonicaGeller! (LOL, your name makes it seem like Monica shipped Rachel/Joey.)

OMG, that quote! It broke my heart too.

That line of Joey saying he was crazy about Rachel... *sighs* So sweet. I always saw Joey as kind of wondering, "does she feel the same way?" then being hopeful that she did. I thought it was pretty mature of Rachel and Joey to sit far apart while Ross was in the room, then when they kissed on the cheek, they emulated a couple that was so comfy with each other, like they'd been dating for a while.

I'm with you on the fanfic stuff, those are where we get our happy endings! One of the fic endings I love the most is in "Halfway Enough," because R/J get to be with each other for a weekend, then they are okay with just being friends, because they care more about the group and Ross's feelings - that one is the most bittersweet, but still viable, J/R ending to me. On the flipside, I also love stories where J/R do end up together officially, and then there are the AU fics of Rachel being dissatisfied with her and Ross's relationship and going to California. I only wish those were finished!

IA with what you said about Rachel giving up stuff for Ross. "Past and Present" articulated it so well that I was floored when I read that epiphany Rachel had, about Ross saying her job was "just a job", because it was true. And you're so right about Joey taking Rachel out on a date! Love that moment when he says, "This is the best date I ever had," and she says, "I know!" They had so much fun together and had tons of chemistry when Rachel showed him her end-of-then-date move. That episode was pure perfection.

It's so funny to me. I just started watching the series for a second time. (I took an almost 2 week break from watching Friends just so I could relish in the entire series as a whole.) Now all I'm focused on is watching the interaction between Mondler and Rachel/Joey. (Especially the latter since we never get much satisfaction out of their relationship)

It's like she's the only thing he's uncertain about. He's always known what he wanted to do career-wise but when it came to Rachel, he never really stopped questioning. Even when they were together, he couldn't believe his luck. I love when they're kissing in Barbados and he says, "I can't believe I'm kissing you. I'm kissing Rachel!" and she says, "I know, I'm her!" The happiness in their faces leaves me speechless. Such amazing acting in that arc.

I love most of the fanfiction in the communities (basically except the badly-written ones), especially the ones with the happy ending. I think I read that one, I'd have to go back and look again.

Past & Present is hands-down one of the best fanfictions I've ever read, and not just for Friends. I love the first bits in Barbados and the chapter in the restaurant and when they're in Monica's bathroom teasing each other. The chemistry between them is so thick you could cut it with a knife, to quote Phoebe in Touching the Stars.

TOW Joey Dates Rachel is one of my favourite episodes of the whole series. That final moment leaves me open-mouthed and speechless. It's amazing and perfect and so fantastic for them and it starts everything off in the perfect way.

@MsChanandlerBong, I did the exact same thing. It's so nice to see little moments between the two. I replayed the "You're so pretty" line from TOW the Jam about five times. They've got such a chemistry, I'm surprised they didn't end up together. Stupid writers. I:

I did the same thing as you, MsChanandlerBong! Rewatched the whole series paying attention to Mondler and Rachel/Joey. It was a lot of fun focusing on their scenes. I love the build up in both the relationships. Monica/Chandler got the happy romantic ending, but unfortunately Joey and Rachel didn't :( I still love all the stuff before the break up, though!

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I love when they're kissing in Barbados and he says, "I can't believe I'm kissing you. I'm kissing Rachel!" and she says, "I know, I'm her!"

I know, that was a great moment between them! Joey could pretty much be with any women he wanted, but he was so happy and felt so lucky to be with Rachel. So fantastic.

LOL there's so little J/R fanfic (well, compared to other ships) that I'll at least read anything that has J/R. There are a couple of fics I hold higher than the rest, though, and "Past and Present" is definitely one of them (for all the reasons you said, Amy). I also love Rose's other story, "Joey's Diary." It's so heartbreaking, but a great read. Anyway, "Halfway Enough" is the one-shot fic that's not on FF.Net, it's in the list I posted earlier.

I love all the S8 episodes in that storyline (TOW Joey Dates Rachel - TOW The Tea Leaves) because it's all so, so good. And yes, that scene at the end is amazing! The way Joey looks down at Rachel while they're sitting in the chair after she pulls him closer... Okay, I am so going to rewatch that now!

Hee, I adore that "You're so pretty" line, and when Rachel says, "Thank God you're pretty," in TOW Joey's Fridge (it's even more hilarious when Chandler says the same thing later in the episode.)

Rose is definitely one of the best writers I've seen. I just wish the rest of her stuff was still online. I love A Perfect Fit, too. That's definitely up there. Rachel's First Time is pretty awesome too. Wish most of these were completed, though.

Something I noticed was in TOW Joey Dates Rachel, they’re talking about their end-of-the-night moves. When Joey says, “Just tell me, Rach, just tell me!”, Rachel starts laughing.
I never noticed it before because it’s only shown for a split-second, but he has the sweetest look on his face when she laughs. It’s like a genuine smile that wasn’t acting. Ugh they are so perfect and I am now replaying that moment over and over. That episode is so perfect.

My obsession with J/R has grown to a point where I can't even see Matt LeBlanc with anyone who isn't Jennifer Aniston. They look so great together.

I wish her other stuff was still up, too! IDK why she took down "On the Balcony" and the high school AU (normally I don't read high school AUs, but I would definitely have read that one. Although, tini's makes up for that.) I wish those were completed, too! There's a post-series AU that was really promising, but it hasn't been finished yet: "In My Blood Like Holy Wine" (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5673547/1/In_My_Blood_Like_Holy_Wine).

Yes, I know exactly what part you're talking about and it's adorable! They both had great natural chemistry, and it especially showed in that episode.

They did look great together! I rarely ship real life couples, but I make a small exception for them. I'm glad they didn't date because any in-group relationship might have ended up causing problems, but I love that they got so close, and that Matt has admitted he had a crush on Jen. It's especially noticable (well, to me) in the first season, and he had to have drawn upon those feelings for the S8-10 stuff.

I'd have loved to read her other works. I think I've read that one. Loved it. Most fanfiction for R/J was last updated in 2003. I'd love to see one fanfiction written before season 8.

Yeah, they're great together. I don't think most of their interactions were forced. Laughing at each others' jokes just seemed to come naturally.

Jen and Matt are one of three RL couples I ship (the others are Neil Patrick Harris/David Burtka and Matthew Perry/Courteney Cox). I wouldn't mind them getting together now, neither is married (though Matt has been with his Joey co-star Andrea Anders since 2006). They'd be really good together.

I'll now go re-watch season 1 to see. :D I never realised or thought to check if his feelings poked through his acting. He must've done that "method actor thing", to quote Rachel in one of my favourite Friends scenes of all time.

Cool, glad to hear that! Same here, I'd love to read some pre-Season 8 J/R fic, but I guess interest in that couple started up around 2002-03.

IA, Jen and Matt had tons of chemistry and I always liked their scenes together, though I didn't notice most of them when I was fixated on R/R scenes (lol). Rachel and Joey genuinely looked happy almost all the time and like they were having fun with each other, especially after Rachel moved in with Joey.

I think they'd be good together too! I'd like to think they are friends. I only recently found out about Matt and Andrea, that was a surprise! And aw, I do love Neil/David. They're so cute.

It's fun to go back and pick out little moments in Season 1, and there are a couple in S1 and S2 that kind of randomly show how affectionate Jen was toward Matt (like when she stands next to him in TOW Underdog Gets Away and when she hugs him for a while in an early Season 2 episode). I think he did that method actor thing too, and I love that Season 9 scene you were talking about. That was definitely an 'art imitates real life' moment!

Well, I knew Matt and Andrea dated but I had no idea they were still together. Then I watched an interview with Matt and some talk show host whose name I forgot and he mentions that she's right there in the audience. I'll admit, it hurt a little. I'd gotten too used to seeing him with Jen. Stupid Matt and his being in hiding for the last five years thing. /sulk I:

I'm going to go rewatch S1 in a bit... I'll have fun capping those moments, I think.

One thing I love about J/R is that we can mention a moment and everyone knows what we're on about. With R/R, it was all one big repetitive blur. It didn't have but maybe two defining moments (I can't even think of them right now), but J/R has so many unique moments that can each individually represent 10 seasons of the two same people interacting, and most are not even from a relationship-status. It's something you don't find anywhere else. It's basically romance but not.

Sorry to double post, but I came across this today while browsing the J/R threads at FanForum.

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Reasons why we love them...

1. Because he saw her first
2. Because Phoebe said they'd have the beautiful children
3. Because they're the Cobras!
4. Because he liked her "half a English Trifle, and half a...Sheperd�s Pie" on Thanksgiving
5. Because she thinks he's pretty
6. Because they knew about Chandler and Monica before everyone else
7. Because she was the only one who thought his bag was cool
8. Because he always flirts with her and she should give him a chance!
9. Because Rachel had a crush on Joey when they first met!
10. Because they are so adorable together and funny!
11. Because they both like porn!
12. Because they both like books...of all kinds
13. Because they both like to throw wet paper towels!
14. Because she likes Soap Operas and he's on one!
15. Because he's even closer than across the hall...
16. Because he can marry the two of them right now (he has the power)
17. Because she wants him to squeeze her ass on TV
18. Because if Rachel hadn't run away from the altar, they would have hooked up.
19. Because they're U-N-I sexy.
20. Because she thinks his way of sailing is more fun.
21. Because she loves living with him, and she's the hottest roommate he's ever had!
22. Because even Muzzerella thinks they belong together!
23. Because she didn't have to ask.
24. Because he took her out on a date to cheer her up!
25. Because he's gonna protect her.
26. Because Cobras are better than lobsters!
27. Because he didn't want her to move out.
28. Because she doesn't know what she would do without him.
29. Because he said he would never ever let her be alone! Never-ever
30. Because her moves affected him.
31. Because she loves him so much.
32. Because they went for "a walk in the rain" together.
33. Because at the end of the day, she's going home with him.
34. Because he's the one she'd rather kiss on New Year's.
35. Because it was because of Joey that Rachel got her first career "start"
36. Because he wore Rachel's underwear!
37. Because he wasn't calm, and he'd never been more scared in his entire life
38. Because, unlike Ross, he TOLD Rachel
39. Because she couldn't believe he wouldn't be around to "eat all their food, and tie up their phone lines" (Season 2)
40: Because he bought her favourite flowers on their date.
41: Because Rachel has had dreams of Joey kissing her
42: Because Joey said no guy at the soap opera party is good enough for her.
43: Because they are curious as George.
44: Because she was the only one he took to the Soapies award ceremony.
45: Because he was the first one to feel Emma kick.
46: Because he's never felt for anyone the way he feels for Rachel.
47: Because they're the ones "... That Could've Been."
48. Because he taught her how to say "Va fa Napoli!"
49. Because he went to confront Treeger when he made Rachel cry.
50. Because he thought of words that rhymed with "Rachel" so Phoebe could include her in her song.
51. Because he told Muzzarella and Gunther that he loved her !
52. Because R/J can also stand for Romeo and Juliet and Rose and Jack, two great examples of love.
53. Because, if anything, they're great friends ...

It's a perfect list, and I liked to share it with you guys. It really shows how perfect they are for each other.

I am totally hugging that list right now.

My first post in this thread and I must say you guys are almost convincing me.

AHHHH that list is so amazing. How anybody can deny their perfectness, I will never know!

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My first post in this thread and I must say you guys are almost convincing me.

So what will it take to convince you to come over to the dark side of the Cobra lovers????

COME TO THE DARK SIDE, WE HAVE PIZZA, BEER AND WET PAPER TOWELS.

Excuse the caps.

Sorry I'm posting to this late, but I had to say something to it!

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Then I watched an interview with Matt and some talk show host whose name I forgot and he mentions that she's right there in the audience. I'll admit, it hurt a little.

The Ellen interview, right? I just watched a while ago! Aw, I can see why it hurt. Jen and Matt are kind of like Kate and Leo for me, they still have love each other even if they aren't a couple. And as much as I can understand Matt wanting to relax and lay low for a while (I would too if I had as much money as he did!) I do wish he'd done a couple other projects. But I am glad he's making a comeback! The Matt he portrays in "Episodes" and Jen's character in "Horrible Bosses" would make a deliciously twisted couple, like Bizarro Rachel/Joey.

Totally agree about them having lots of great defining moments. Their episodes in Season 7 showed us how great of friends they were, how far they'd come from the pilot. I love their banter in a lot of those scenes and how they could hang out with just each other comfortably, as opposed to Season 1 when they barely got their own storyline.

That list is pure love. I want to hug it too

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My first post in this thread and I must say you guys are almost convincing me.

Awesome! There can never be too many Cobra fans. I suggest rewatching TOW Joey Dates Rachel and TOW Rosita Dies if you're interested in them. And ditto to what Amy said, hee. We also have two Hugsies on our side.

Yeah, I love that he stopped acting to be with his daughter. He's a great father. <3
I think Jen and him would be a great couple even now. The media would go crazy over it, her being a big movie star and him still having big residual fame from Friends/Joey and now Episodes.
I haven't seen Horrible Bosses yet! I'm waiting 'til it gets out of cinemas so I can download it. It's rated 16 so I can't go watch. :( But her character certainly seems perfect for the Episodes-verse Matt. Episodes Matt is kind of an ass, but it's hard to focus on that with his face showing. He's still hot, man. But I digress.

I love seeing those screenshots of S1/S2 J/R. They're so comfortable around each other. I love their little kiss goodbye in the S4 finale when they were leaving for London. It was probably accidental (like Monica and Phoebe's kiss goodbye) but it's so cute how it didn't make anything weird because hey, accident or not, it did happen.

We could always use more Cobra fans! I love how long this thread is. It's nothing impressive, but it's still more than the Lobsters. Ross is allergic to lobster anyway.

Oh, he did it for her? I didn't know that! He is a great dad :) Oh, and I agree, the media would go nuts over them dating, for sure.

Ah, well I hope you enjoy it! Jennifer's great in it, and so are the other actors. It's an entertaining movie. I've only seen clips of Episodes, and from what I have seen, he just seems so different from the Matt I've seen in interviews, which I guess is the point. And IA, he's still good looking.

S1 and 2 J/R is adorable! They really were - I think if Joey hadn't known about Ross loving Rachel, he would have tried hitting on her more, but I'm glad he didn't, because I like that they became friends before he fell for her instead of them having a one night stand. I like that she said she had a crush on him when they first met, though!

Oh, I like that quick kiss! Neither looked accidental to me, just friendly pecks on the lips. The group was pretty liberal with kissing each other XD

Yes, we could use more! I like the traffic this thread has been getting too. LOL, Ross is allergic to lobster? I didn't know that. But Rachel did have a bad reaction to lobster when she was pregnant!